Game Design Book Recommendations

What do you think of the book on gamefeel?

It’s an awesome book.

Here’s a sample of the types of things it talks about:
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/1781/principles_of_virtual_sensation.php?print=1

In the book it defines the term precisely, as the confluence of spatial simulation, polish effects, and real-time control (which might be better termed, “real-time direct control”, since starcraft is cited as the defining example of a game that lacks only real-time control and no other elements of game feel). It lays out specifically how each of these things looks like individually, and every combination of them short of the whole thing, and lays out how only all 3 make the full sensation of game feel clear. Continue reading

Joseph Anderson on Dark Souls

What is your thoughts on this guys video series on his critique of Dark Souls?

I started to do a level-by-level critique of dark souls myself. It went unreleased due to audio level issues. I had different criticisms than this guy, like the way that the door out of the asylum demon’s room isn’t more obvious, leading many many players to try to fight the asylum demon instead of realizing they can run away (like sean malstrom). Also the kick/jumping attack instructions could have been more clear, and there could have been a shielding enemy that allowed the kick instruction to come across better. And the room explaining how to put on armor and equipment is easily missed too. I also think they crowded too many messages around the boss fog. I didn’t miss these things, but a lot of other players did from the LPs I’ve seen. I like the dark souls asylum tutorial way better than the dark souls 2 tutorial which has branching paths without any real flow, Though I like the way the dark souls 2 tutorial can be skipped. Continue reading

Gameplay is Meaningless?

Do you think the word gameplay is bad because it’s redundant or meaningless? When people talk about books, they don’t say bookread because everyone knows you read a book. Similarly, everyone knows a game must be played, so the term gameplay is pointless. Of course, nowadays, games have many different sections with wildly varying mechanics, as well as things like cutscenes and QTEs, so maybe the word makes sense.

Come on, don’t play coy, you know the answer I’m going to give to this.

The term gameplay isn’t meaningless, in the same way the word “cinematography” isn’t meaningless, or saying a book is “well written” isn’t meaningless. People use the term gameplay to refer to the interactive segment of the media work, as opposed to the music, visuals, story, etc. People use the word cinematography to refer to the composition of the shots as opposed to the plot, writing, acting, etc. People use the phrase, “well written” to refer to the method of writing used to render the plot elements in distinction from what those elements are.

The distinction is even more clear in the case of gameplay than these other terms. There wasn’t a parallel evolution of language across these mediums allowing for perfectly equivalent terms across all three, in part because the mediums are different, with games being a hybrid medium, or perhaps more accurately, a medium that requires communication through other mediums. Video games are a hybrid medium consisting of visuals, sounds, and optionally stories, games in a true sense don’t need all these things, but they typically need tools to facilitate them.

Nonetheless; come off it, there needs to be a word to describe the interactive challenging portion of a media work. If you don’t have a word encompassing that whole part, but still more specific than referring to the whole work, then you make communication way more difficult than it needs to be.

I recall icyclam’s argument that a better word than gameplay is “mechanic” and it’s not supported, because mechanic is way more specific, and gameplay can be used to refer to phenomena that result from mechanics, rather than just the mechanics themselves, not that icyclam EVER cared about whether the mechanics were good, as should be evidenced by his abstainence from specifically referring to them ever.

It’s of massive convenience to our language to be able to say things like, “gameplay consists of,” “The gameplay is good/bad,” “There isn’t enough gameplay instead of cutscenes,” “this form of gameplay continues for 3 hours,”

If you substitute the word mechanic here, notably the meaning of these sentence fragments changes, same for whatever other word you may choose.

Gameplay communicates a specific thing that we have a common understanding of, which is distinct from the words around it. We can communicate similar differentiations in other mediums (“It’s a good story, but poorly written” “The actors do a nice job, and it’s a good script to a good plot, but the cinematography is horrible”), even if we don’t have the same equivalency in terms over there. This is not a dispensible word.

But at the same time, what if I said that just as when you press a button, there is an animation, similarly, when you press buttons for 30 mins, there is also an animation (that ‘animation’ being a cutscene)? What is the difference between a quick animation for one button press vs. a longer animation for a series of button presses?

Iteration time. I’ve been watching people give talks on modern board game design versus old fashioned board game design for a while. One of the big things that most modern board games do is they have everyone take their turn simultaneously instead of each person individually take a turn, forcing everyone else at the table to wait. To cut down on this, in games where people still do go back and forth, frequently to cut down on people taking forever with their turn, the actions people will be allowed to perform are split up into tiny bits so it goes back and forth really quickly.

The decision happens at the point you make it. The gameplay happens at the point of decisionmaking. The more frequent these are, the more you’re playing, the less you’re watching. Below a certain threshold, the iteration time is negligible.

If you have a quicktime event, you have a really really simple system, pass/fail. It’s a reaction test basically. It’s the minigame played in sonic generations or unleashed when you jump off one of those ramps that has you press buttons to do poses in sequence before you land to get ring power. Except between each button press is a cutscene. There’s no decisions being made, just press or not press. The game state is no more complicated than that, and they stick extra stuff inbetween for cinematic effect. It should be obvious what I mean when I say, there isn’t much gameplay going on.

The difference is, shorter iteration times get you to the point that actually matters faster. This is primarily a user experience thing, but that doesn’t make it unimportant.

re: gameplay. I actually don’t think clam’s article on the topic is any good, partly for the reasons you mentioned, but also because he uses other terms like “gamer”, which can be criticized in the same manner. What is a gamer? Do we have moviers or bookers? Why aren’t people who play sports or board games or card games considered gamers? But who cares about any of that, I’m too busy being the most hardcore gamer in the world. That said, I think the criticism of the use of gameplay is valid. I hadn’t considered terms like cinematography, that is some pretty good critical thinking skill you’ve got. I guess the problem is no one adheres to a consistent definition of gameplay. How would you define it? I would say it’s all of the systems and mechanics, how they interact with each other, and how the player manipulates them. Rules are a byproduct of interactions, so I didn’t mention that term. Also, is core gameplay proper? E.g. Bayonetta has shooting and driving segments, but the core gameplay is beating things up. Make sense?

Usually people say film buff or bookworm, though I haven’t heard anyone say those in like a decade.

I’ve seen gamblers referred to as gamers before. And tabletop roleplayers are frequently called gamers. Both D’arbys are referred to as gamers in Jojo. People who play sports are athletes.

I don’t know why the term gamer stuck so hard. Mark Ceb would argue it’s a really successful marketing thing that only took off maybe a decade and a half ago. He might be right on that. I don’t really know why gamer for video games is something that seems so natural or why it became such a big part of so many people’s lives. Maybe it speaks to the efficacy of the medium to hold engagement?

Your definition of gameplay seems reasonable enough, but it should also have the definition as the active segment of time during a game, so we can have phrases like, “gameplay resumes”. And probably whatever other definitions would fit the various phrases I tossed out during the answer this is replying to, since all are in common use.

I think core gameplay is proper, because it’s possible to have segments of mechanics that are interrelated within those segments but totally separate from one another, and choosing one as core only seems natural. It’s in common parlance already and it’s not a big stretch.

Stat Gain without the Lame

How should stats affect gameplay in rpgs? Having them make the character stronger just makes the game easier so, do you have any alternatives?

As opposed to affecting what else? Appearance?

I know I already largely covered this topic in a previous post: https://critpoints.wordpress.com/2015/05/29/do-you-think-the-souls-games-would-be-better-if-they-werent-rpgs/

On the other hand, grinding versus not grinding can be like a form of self imposed challenge, but that doesn’t really tend to work out.

The alternative is not having stats make the character strictly stronger, only different, but that makes it so stats are no longer a form of positive feedback. Continue reading

For Honor: Combat Trailer Analysis

Review the combats:

Okay, from its announcement I was interested in For Honor, but also hesitant about it, because it’s hard to tell what’s going on exactly. Like there’s 3 attack stances, controlled by the right stick (what controls the camera when you’re not locked onto a human opponent? What allows you to switch your lock-on between human opponents?) that clearly do different attacks, but the animations don’t have very clear arcs to them, and the UI here clearly indicates your opponent’s block stance as well as your own as a means of compensating for the unclear animations.

The npc rabble appear to go down in one hit, much like enemies in a dynasty warrior title, but also seem to be able to damage you. There are 5 segments of health on each player character, each sword blow seems to deal 1 segment of health, some abilities can deal partial damage to a segment, and some character classes lose partial segments on successful blocks, as seen near the end of the first commentated section of footage. (which makes sense, as they said the assassin’s class doesn’t have good defense)

There appear to be guard breaking moves, and things that have combined animations between both players that move them around, and I have no idea what triggers those or what they really do.

I don’t know how the hit ranges are determined, or whether the attacks are magnetic or not, or how attack animations are determined, and regrettably, that’s what this kind of comes down to. Attacks might be randomly chosen out of a bag for all 3 block zones, they might have predetermined looping sequences for all 3 block zones (preferable). There might be additional actions possible depending on the buttons you press that trigger those extra actions. It’s honestly hard to tell right now.

The other thing that is up in the air is the relationship between the block zones. In 2d fighting games, there are 3 possible properties an attack can have, high, mid, or low. You have 2 block zones, back, which blocks mid and high attacks, and downback, which blocks mid and low attacks. Mids and Lows are allowed to be fast in 2d fighting games, so downback is the default block zone, highs must be slower to allow for reaction time. In 3d fighting games the relationship is different. There are still high mid and low attacks, but a high block in a 3d fighter will block high and mid attacks, an a low block in a 3d fighter will block low attacks, and high attacks will miss, but mids will hit. In 3d fighters, mids and highs are allowed to be fast, but lows are the slow ones.

In this game, all 3 block zones seem to be totally exclusive, so is there a relationship between attack speed and block zone that prioritizes any of them? Dunno. If there isn’t, then it’s a 3-way guessing game, which sucks, but if the attacks are animated well/consistently and you can play the range game footsie dance, then it might work.

If you can’t consistently produce attacks, it’ll suck, guaranteed. It pretty much hinges on that. Can’t tell yet.

What’s Deep as a Fighting Game?

I’ve seen you claim that fighting games are probably the pinnacle of depth. How much of that would you say is related to them being multiplayer–depth being squished out by players themselves? what about strategy games or good competitive shooters? Any SP game you consider to be as deep as them?

Dante from DMC4 is more deep than any individual fighting game character ever. Maybe not more deep than an entire fighting game, but more than any single character in one. The number of options and ways he can combine them are absolutely tremendous. DMC3 dante with the style swapper might be even more deep than that (considering he has more styles, more moves in individual styles and more weapons, he’s almost inarguably deeper), though, shit, something about the way he’s animated manages to make his style swap combos look less impressive. Maybe the lack of color flashes and hud notifications.

Some speedgames are ludicrously deep, like Mirror’s Edge, Half Life 1 and 2 (amazingly in completely different ways), Mario 64/sunshine, Dark Souls 1, ocarina of time (I say reluctantly), Ori and the Blind Forest, Ratchet and Clank, Super Monkey Ball, Metroid Prime, at least one castlevania game, at least one sonic game, F-Zero GX. Though I’d be hesitant to put them on the level of a fighting game.

RTS games absolutely go toe to toe with fighting games, they might be even more deep than fighting games, I don’t really want to make a call there.

Go is up there with fighting games, no doubt, probably chess too (though you could argue that the development of the meta has shifted the relevant field of depth into a smaller range).

Quake 3 and UT 2004 are close, but I think fall a bit below fighting games, less options, less complex neutral.

But I mean, there’s a reason I play fighting games, and it’s because they’re the best games around. They’re games that I can put more research into than any other and have more to verifiably show for it. They’re games that I can confidently say I don’t understand completely and have a lot left to learn, where Dark Souls is one I think I do understand completely.

And is being multiplayer part of why fighting games are so deep?

Being Multiplayer is a part of that, a lot more fine interactions are tested in a multiplayer environment that can’t be tested in a singleplayer environment. Player psychology is a very real thing that can be played with and experimented with to produce favorable results. In a singleplayer game I don’t have to consider my opponents adapting to me, I don’t have to consider common habits that some ice climbers players have and others don’t. I got 2nd place at a tournament last monday, facing an ice climbers player twice, probably the third best ICs in the state. The first time I beat him 3-2, the second time I beat him 3-0. I realized between those games that if I stayed on platforms, he’d eventually get the climbers out of sync, as his offense was too weak to overwhelm me and that was my chance to attack, separating them, and that he loved to shield to bait me into a shieldgrab, but I could run up to him and grab him, usually getting a free followup and there wasn’t a lot he could do to stop me, and he definitely couldn’t wobble me. So the game changed from me poking him a lot and getting wobbled, to preying on split up climbers and fthrow fsmashes. In a netplay match I lost in marth dittos the first round, then won the next two by counterpicking to snake, pure intuition that the player was unfamiliar with the character despite it being an amazing matchup for marth. In street fighter I recently realized that I need to just walk into their range and hit them with mediums sometimes, I need to start comboing into spiral arrow off my light jabs, because I usually get a few of those for free off my pressure setups, but the grab afterwards is less free, and they don’t do much damage by themselves. In multiplayer games, it’s a constant cycle of improvement and thinking about common player tendencies.

This is why icyclam’s claim that bots are better because they’re harder is such bullshit, because human tendencies create depth in the form of bringing game states into relevance that normally wouldn’t be, and computers simply cannot recreate that.

Local top PM players Kysce and Flipp went to Shots Fired 2 recently, teaming in doubles, and Flipp’s Snake plants C4 all the time, leading Kysce to say, “Got ’em!” whenever he does. However Kysce knows Snake well enough to know that sometimes he doesn’t have the stick, but it looks like he does, so he says “Got ’em!” even when the stick isn’t on them, and this occasionally confused the other guy, even enough to make them kill themselves or irrationally shield or airdodge when they weren’t really in danger, opening them up to attacks. I played a friend in third strike, and jumped when I hear him do the fireball motion. AI doesn’t have that sort of internal model of self or other, and Desk’s video on SFV survival shows it. Survival mode itself shows it.

Ratchet and Clank Review

What do you think of Rachet and Clank?

It’s alright, not great. 5/10.

The control style is really unique, not like the modern third person shooter we’ve come to know. I’m amazed they didn’t compromise on this even into the PS3 titles, or the modern remake of the first game.

I’d say a big issue with the enemies is that a TON of them walk straight at you and damage you when they get too close, and can’t reliably be pushed back. So you gotta shoot them before they get to you, unload a ton of ammo until they drop dead. Continue reading

Bayonetta is a Bitch (to learn)

Bayonetta doesn’t have a large move list, most of the weapons are pretty same-y. A bit of experimentation will let you figure out which combos are suitable for a given situation (e.g. do you want to launch the foe, do you want range, do you want something quick). And the moveset is pretty flexible so it’s more about understanding the fundamentals of movement and approaching various enemies than memorizing an entire list of combos. I mean, DMC has more moveset memorization than Bayo for sure. Also, none of PG’s other games have much memorization. MGR has a dial-a-combo moveset, but once you understand move properties, you’ll quickly realize which ones are worth using in a given situation. The rest are for showing off.

The trouble is that they’re rather samey despite having so many, and you get punished score-wise for repeating them. I’ve been meaning to give Bayonetta another shot since I beat it the first time.

MGR has more dial combos than I want to memorize, and I did memorize them at one point. It was disappointing because they were so samey (and also useless).

I think dial combos are alright in moderation, but more than 3 on a given weapon in a given stance is overkill. Nero hit the sweet spot there. He has a basic mash combo, then he has 2 special combos, one for AOE, one for damage. Both of those can be extended with good timing.

http://bayonetta.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Combo_Attacks
Bayonetta has 19 ground combos and 6 air combos!

And you can only see the list of these during training mode, or by pausing during gameplay! (Unless there’s a menu option to enable the training dialogue during gameplay)

The only way to realistically learn all these combo chains is to sit in training mode and try each combo listed one by one until you memorize by rote. The game doesn’t feature a natural process for learning these combos. You aren’t introduced to them one by one and expected to become acclimated to them over a long period of time before more are introduced (the others don’t even have to be locked off, you could have all the moves from the beginning, but guided exercises using specific ones would have sufficed).

The level of complexity here is made very high, but the game does not gain a lot of depth from it, because combos need to repeat moves from intermediary combos, so the more useful moves are functionally chained to the moves that come earlier in the combo.

The average person sees this and probably doesn’t want to put up with memorizing so many sequences. I’ve learned skullgirls B&Bs that are less of a pain than this, because at least every single move in the combo is something I can perform by itself and I know has a functional purpose in the combo. In Bayonetta and games like it, these are completely arbitrary sequences that have no sort of aid or tutorial process for committing them to memory.

In fighting games, there are a bunch of different combos because there are a bunch of different openers and resources that can be spent, as well as different states of advantage the combo can end in. In Bayonetta, those same tradeoffs don’t exist, combos are expected to fulfill the role of functional moves, but because they need to go through all the lower moves to get to the last one that is functional, they end up being samey.