What’s different about Fox and Falco’s shines?

What do you think of Fox and Falco’s shines? How do they differ? Some say the ability is overpowered. Is it?

Fox’s is a lot bigger. Falco’s is much smaller. Fox’s hits at a horizontal angle. Falco’s hits straight up. Fox’s has fixed knockback. Falco’s has knockback growth.

Both come out frame one. Both are invincible frame 1. Both have the reflection hitbox come out frame 3. Both slow down the character’s fall speed in the air. Both can be jump canceled on frame 4. Both allow the character to turn around during them.

Basically, Fox’s is way better. It allows him to shinespike people, and its fixed knockback means it always combos regardless of percentage. Plus, he has a 3 frame jumpsquat, so his pressure with shine can be a lot tighter than falco’s 5 frame jumpsquat. And waveshine combos into up smash.

Are shines overpowered? Yeah. They give Fox and Falco better shield pressure than other characters, give them a stall option while falling, and are extremely low commitment combo starters. It’s like having an FADC for free (or like a DP break from Garou). The only limitation on shines is you can’t move while using shine, and they don’t deal a lot of damage by themselves.




And of course, fox has infinites on any stage with a wall. (and you’ll notice all stages with permanent walls are banned, also fox has an infinite on peach on flat ground, but that takes a lot of reaction skill to pull off)

Of course, just because they’re overpowered doesn’t mean you should necessarily take them away. They’re fun to use and they have a lot of uses, a lot of depth. Later games in the smash series nerfed their abilities, and made them basically completely useless, except as a reflector. Project M decided to remove their frame 1 invincibility, so they’ll at least trade hits with other attacks, and made it so fox’s shine has knockback growth versus aerial opponents, so it can’t shinespike at low percentages as easily. In this way Project M retained most of their functionality with only a small nerf.

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